Fansubs-The Great Debate!

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KingRoxas	Fansubs-The Great Debate!	Lead	[-]
Posts: 23 (04/13/08 10:16 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Tags : None I was wondering what you all thought about this as a panel ... Fansubs. American companies it's lowering their DVD sales. American Voice Actors say it's putting them out of work. It's not fair to people who actually purchase legal DVDs. Yet, people still DO download full (series) fansubs. Being an active member of the anime community...anyone who has internet/and an anime fan HAS to know about the recent fansub problems plaguing the Anime industry. In the panel I'd love to discuss the obvious issues, and have a debate or two (granted their are some pro-fansub people in the audience). At no time will the availability or where to download anime illegally will be discussed. I was really influenced by Greg Ayres amazing Fansub panel -> http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=ZZalapski&search_query=fansub&search=Search I think I'd also talk about alternatives to fansubs, perhaps other ways people can frolic with their anime without doing so illegally =D Personally, in Canada- I don't think there are enough ways to preview or get a good idea of an anime without watching at least one episode.. so if it's not available legally online-in that case only would it be okay. But of course, I'd rather not be escorted out of the building for approving of fansubs :P Otherwise I totally believe fansubs = bad XD Last Edited By: KingRoxas 04/14/08 07:36 AM. Edited 1 time.
Vimy 101		#1	[-]
Posts: 125 (04/15/08 11:24 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I think this is a good topic for a debate. I personally have been in the fandom for long enough that I remember when Fan subbing was the only way to get a lot of titles that we could understand, (back in the heydey of vhs) before all this new fangled file sharing what not... That being said, i believe that Fan subs are often better than their corporate counterparts, and many (if not most) fan sub groups are not making any money, and stop distribution of them when series are liscensed. Woudl it be possible perhaps to also incorporate scanlations vs published manga, because it hits on the same basic arguments... My only problem is that I am far too many panels already... )= P For Great Justice!
ShanceChance		#2	[-]
Posts: 94 (04/15/08 02:14 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Here's another topic you guys can cover, if the panel goes... How about series which have been licensed, but either have been victim of a very poor DVD release (bad voice-acting, bad subtitling, bad visual display, edits, etc.), or all that is made available is a heavily-edited TV show on TV (which may have gone so far as to change so much that they also have changed the target audience) and the company with the rights refuses to release the series uncut on DVD? How about series which either have had the license dropped or are long out-of-print?
Vimy 101		#3	[-]
Posts: 126 (04/15/08 04:12 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	As mush as I woudl like to be on a panel such as this... i already have too many to do... So I wish you good luck finding panelists, the topic is interesting and you shouldn't have too much difficulty For Great Justice!
RandomSomebody		#4	[-]
Posts: 1 (04/15/08 06:11 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I'd be willing to be a panelist for this. I would consider myself probably pro-fansubs, although I personally think that nowadays there are serious problems creeping into the fansub community. I once was active in the community, although it was for a brief period of time, and not in a prominent role in any way (it was really just one project). Let me know if you need me. --Paul Nguyen
MaxyKun		#5	[-]
Posts: 10 (04/15/08 07:43 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I'd also like to be involved with this. There's a lot of pros and cons with fansubs, kind of like a mixed blessing.
Iczer eh		#6	[-]
Posts: 1711 (04/15/08 11:13 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Keep it to industry issues with fansubs, I still don't allow the ickiness that is (serious) sub vs dub debates in my schedule.
Crownowa		#7	[-]
Posts: 38 (04/16/08 10:02 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I'd do panel this. And being burdened by crappy DVD releases and whatnot will lead to fansubs. Well, anime being anime leads to fansubs... So, shall we be a panel then?
KingRoxas		#8	[-]
Posts: 24 (04/16/08 03:33 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	@ Iczer: Yep, although it's unavoidable.. I'm sure someone will bring it up as an argument, but I know when enough is enough XD @ Crownowa: I didn't really understand your post-- and I definitely think you should provide some reasoning for those "crappy DVD releases" ... =D Let's keep our fingers crossed that the PanelGuru will accept our panel now XD
Crownowa		#9	[-]
Posts: 45 (04/17/08 12:43 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Well we shouldn't be arguing about stuff here... save it for the panel; though, I emailed Fingers and he said that it may not be a go...
KingRoxas		#10	[-]
Posts: 25 (04/17/08 05:29 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Yeah... well I was referring to the panel ^__^ Well my fingers are crossed for the panel but I would totally understand it if this was denied.
Iczer eh		#11	[-]
Posts: 1719 (04/17/08 07:24 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Seem to be enough people interested to make it a go, just keep it to the new interesting stuff.
RandomSomebody		#12	[-]
Posts: 2 (04/17/08 08:03 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Oh believe me, there's more than enough interesting stuff to talk about regarding fansubs, even ditching the sub vs. dub argument.
soulpurity		#13	[-]
Posts: 38 (04/17/08 11:29 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	The main reason for fansubbs is first anime sold are usually dubbed and they suck second anime is not cheap it is expensive to buy plus being censor. If they can make higher quality and come out faster then the fansubs the result would be a lot better. They can also give people choice on DVD to watch subbed or dubbed and plz edited video when they speak so the character lips do not continue move after linbes stop as well as they need dubbed voice to fit the character personality more and say japanese name properly. Anyway this panel is sort of like censorship
KingRoxas		#14	[-]
Posts: 26 (04/18/08 04:45 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Guess I'll send off another email to the PanelGuru about this and see what he says XD @Soulpurity: I don't think this panel would be about censorship at all. But I'll save my comments for the panel =D
ShanceChance		#15	[-]
Posts: 96 (04/18/08 05:16 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Censorship is a topic in this. If an anime is licensed by a company like 4Kids, all that is available of it is an edited dub on TV and, according to most anime fans, their dubs are god-awful. This would all be fine if they released the anime on DVD uncut for people, but they don't. A anime in the hands of 4Kids is bad. Therefore, people will seek fansubs because they want to see the real thing. There are also crappy DVD releases. DVDs can be plagued with horrible voice-acting in the dub, bad subtitle translations (or bad subtitling in general... I own legit North American DVDs with spelling and grammar errors), poor picture quality, and poor sound quality. People want to spend their money on quality. If they want to see an anime and the DVD release blows, they are likely to seek fansubs. Then, there are anime which are very unlikely to get licensed. Like all businesses, people who release anime want something that's going to sell as much as possible. Right now, there are many niche shows like sports anime and magical girl anime from the past few years that won't sell very well here, so the likeliness of any company taking the risk of licensing them is very low. There are also tons of anime from the early 90s and before that which we can still only get translations for from fansubland. These shows are unlikely to get licensed because the vast majority of people want shiney and new shows.
RandomSomebody		#16	[-]
Posts: 3 (04/18/08 06:25 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	soulpurity wrote: The main reason for fansubbs is first anime sold are usually dubbed and they suck second anime is not cheap it is expensive to buy plus being censor. If they can make higher quality and come out faster then the fansubs the result would be a lot better. They can also give people choice on DVD to watch subbed or dubbed and plz edited video when they speak so the character lips do not continue move after linbes stop as well as they need dubbed voice to fit the character personality more and say japanese name properly. Anyway this panel is sort of like censorship Given that the panel hasn't even happened yet, I wouldn't say that this panel is censorship (or about censorship, or has anything to do with censorship). I will agree that censorship may come up in the panel, but I'll reserve judgement until the panel actually happens.
Crownowa		#17	[-]
Posts: 46 (04/21/08 03:36 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Why is this panel conditional anyway?
PanelGuru	WHy is this conditional	#18	[-]
Posts: 456 (04/23/08 03:02 AM) Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Sub vs Dub is not going to happen again as it was resolved once and for all times by GOH Carl Macek a couple of years ago. Quoth the Macek " Real fans learn the language" We needed to clear with the powers that be that this was far enough to be acceptable. It seems to be. Obviously under that limit Fingers The Panel Guru <toot> <toot>
ShanceChance		#19	[-]
Posts: 99 (04/23/08 08:06 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	"Downloads vs. licensed" can also get out of hand and tends to turn into one massive pool of insults and holier-than-thou very fast... almost as bad as "sub vs. dub". Both sides have too many people who are too caught up in their own opinion to open their minds to new ones. "I'm right, and you're an idiot because you're wrong."-type deal. Both sides also have very important points which the other does not properly respond to or conveniently ignores. The "debate" usually goes nowhere, no opinions change, and no one gains anything from it. It's like debating politics or religion. It never ends, and nothing's really gained except fist-waving, going in circles, and put-downs. Last Edited By: ShanceChance 04/23/08 08:10 AM. Edited 2 times.
RandomSomebody		#20	[-]
Posts: 4 (04/23/08 06:10 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	ShanceChance wrote: "Downloads vs. licensed" can also get out of hand and tends to turn into one massive pool of insults and holier-than-thou very fast... almost as bad as "sub vs. dub". Both sides have too many people who are too caught up in their own opinion to open their minds to new ones. "I'm right, and you're an idiot because you're wrong."-type deal. Both sides also have very important points which the other does not properly respond to or conveniently ignores. The "debate" usually goes nowhere, no opinions change, and no one gains anything from it. It's like debating politics or religion. It never ends, and nothing's really gained except fist-waving, going in circles, and put-downs. If this panel were to happen, it really should be based on logistic arguments, as there are very valid points to be made on either side (wrt downloading vs licensing). Frankly, I think that this argument is one that can be done in a civil manner, and should this particular topic arise, I would imagine that the panelist can maintain enough control to prevent the panel from descending into chaos. I don't think that certain topics should automatically be discounted solely on, person X won't change their mind. If it were, the shipping panel would never happen. The topic of licensed vs fansub is at the heart of what makes fansubbing controversial, and as far as I can tell, we have people who can civilly argue both sides. As for sub vs dub, given that most (of not all) R1 releases) now come with subtitle tracks, I don't see why this is even an issue anymore.

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Fansubs-The Great Debate!

Fansubs-The Great Debate!

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